March 2, 2012
-
The right to die
I am watching all the Lonesome Dove I can this week (thanks for the suggestion @Bricker59 ) and there is one part that chokes me up every time I watch it. (Spoiler alert) Gus, the most lovable character, refuses to give up his legs and ultimately gives up his life.
I wonder about our right to die. In college I did a study on physician assisted suicide, this was around the Kevorkian days. This was also before I had a terminally ill child. My view was that a person could not exercise their right to die due to a multitude of factors, including mental health and awareness, too much physician power, slippery slope. Then I had a child with terminal cancer. I made a decision in the final year of her life to no longer aggressively treat her disease, rather to mildly attack her disease and preserve her quality of life. There was a possibility that with more aggressive and experimental treatments, she may have gone into remission. The possibility was slim, less than .5 percent, but it was there. Rather than proceeding with an aggressive, painful and low odds treatment plan, I chose a mild plan, fewer surgeries, no more radiation, no more bone marrow transplants. She could keep her hair and not be so immuno-suppressed that she spent most of her time in the hospital. This was a parent exercising their right to let go.
Hospice is also an organization that exercises palliative care. They offer comfort and pain management to terminally ill. They work with the family or the patient directly to determine how aggressively to treat anything, such as whether or not to administer antibiotics for infection.
Patients and families have the right to determine medical care and treatments, but physician assisted suicide is still illegal. I can see the argument against it, I was against it once, myself. As I grow older and have seen and heard of different scenarios, this is no longer a black and white issue. Everything is a shade of grey. I can refuse food and drink, create a living will refusing this treatment, but I will have to suffer much before I can find relief in death. I have trouble seeing how that is more humane and a better option than euthanasia.
In surveys it has been noted that 2/3 of the American public agree that physician assisted suicide should be an option for terminally ill patients with intractable suffering. When this comes to a vote, it is more divided 50/50. This I do not understand. Doing a bit of research, this is what I found:
“In the United States, most jurisdictions have prohibited physician assisted death either with specific statutory provisions or judicial applications of more general statutes. There have been attempts to change the law using several methods:
- Legal challenges to the constitutionality of the prohibitions, including two Supreme Court cases heard together (Washington v. Glucksberg and Quill v. Vacco).
- State referenda; while several challenges to prohibitions on physician-assisted death failed, Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act was passed in 1995 and has survived a variety of legal challenges.
- Civil disobedience, in which physicians admitted to breaking the law, thereby challenging the legal and professional systems to come to grips with the inequities of the secret practice.”
-The Hastings Center
Why is this still such an issue? Why do we allow people to suffer and watch their loved ones suffer needlessly?
I do not intend to make this a political or religious issue, but it may inevitable turn into one. I would like to hear anyone’s thoughts on this, provided they do not attack other commenters.
I hope with all of my heart that when my time comes I am able to make choices that can ease my suffering and the burden of my loved ones watching me suffer. Funny how time changes my opinions.
Comments (59)
My own view is that all human beings should have the right to choose whether and when to exit, under whatever circumstances they feel it is appropriate and proper for them to do so. In my opinion, if we acknowledge that human beings have the right to live, then the inevitable corollary is that they also have the right to die.
You know me, I’m pretty conservative, pretty much a nice catholic girl but in this I have a slightly different take than my religion. For matters of cultural stuff I’m the one who has to assist the illed in my family I’m also the one in charge of the transition, hold their hands till the end, funerals and prayers after this happens, so I’ve seen my share cuz I’m doing this since I was 15. After my Granny passed away my mom made me promise to her that if she gets to the point where she’s not able to take care of herself and if she’s suffering, she asked me to “fix” it, and even being myself I know that I can do it and I will. Hell or not, my mom doesn’t want to suffer and I’ll do what I promised if it’s needed.
I think we should have the right to chose when it’s enough. Same as abortion to me, it’s your body, your choice. I have no idea how I’d manage myself in your situation *hug* Probably I’d ask my kid what he/she wants and would try to make things easier, but I can’t even imagine what would I do.
@TheSchizoidMan - Some countries do just that.
@xXxlovelylollipop - When you see your loved ones die, you tend to be more sympathetic towards the process, don’t you? You’re a great daughter, I hope mine will do the same.
In one respect euthanasia is already legal, in that a patient may specify DNR (do not resuscitate) in his living will. In most states, though, a state sponsored legal form is also required.
Most people do indeed favor physician assisted death. They watched an aunt or grandfather suffer with no hope of cure. I remember Kervorkian’s lawyer, Geoffrey Feiger, promising that no jury in America would ever convict a doctor for assisted suicide. He was nearly right.
It seems the present evangelical mania has changed that. The same nuts who want to outlaw contraception or abortion in case of a rape, cannot allow assisted suicide in case of a hopeless illness.
“Damn Jesus freaks!” -Hunter S. Thompson
@we_deny_everything - Exactly! I read somewhere that it still happens, and is never really reported. The article stated that nobody seeks it out to prosecute it, but it is still, technically illegal. In Amber’s case, she had a fast growing brain tumor at the end. They administered massive amounts of morphine to ease the pain, and then her respiration just ended. I can’t imagine ever saying, her respiration ended because of the morphine, the morphine was the only thing that kept her final moments peaceful.
I LOVE Hunter Thompson!
I’m on the fence about this. I used to be very much against physician assisted suicide. for instance, the hippocratic oath would have to be done away with. and if it is done away with, then what oath or statement would medical staff have to keep them truly leaning towards the patient’s welfare in all things?
also, doctors are paid to keep people alive, not to kill them, or to assist in suicide. and nurses are the same. so, who would do it? to take a life is a legal thing. murder is taking a life. this is taking a life, only legally. my question is, would it be up to beaurocrats to do so? that is scary.
all this being said, I think seriously about this and understand what is being said. I’ve been on the edge of suicide myself, many times, so I know what it’s like to be in such pain and anguish that it seems a better choice to just take my life.
My father has a number of jobs related to his pastoral duties, and one of them is working at a hospice. I might have to ask him what his view is on this.
I am so sorry to learn about your daughter this way.I can only imagine your pain.I have two daughters myself, and, well, I’m just sorry for you.
I believe in Euthanasia. When there is no hope, and no, there isn’t always hope.I think that sometimes, peoples suffering should be ended.We don’t let animals suffer…
As for Gus…I love him. They wanted to cut my foot off, I didn’t let them.Gangrene didn’t enter into my case though.
Sometimes I wonder if I made the right decision.
@plantinthewindow - I used to agree with most of those thoughts, myself. However, we now have the right to refuse treatment, to create living wills, to “DNR”, as WDE above pointed out. These do not prolong a patient’s life. I think we should make legal and acceptable one step further, and include in our rights the right to end. This could be in a living will if we are incapable of making a verbal decision when we are in the situation.
@Shadowrunner81 - I would like to hear them, keep me posted.
@Bricker59 - There is nothing worse than questioning your own decisions, is there? You have to trust that you made the best decision with the information you had available, and let it go at that. Easier said than done, though!
I think we need to be very careful about possible ramifications of legalizing assisted suicide, but in NO case shall the decision be made by the doctor or a bureaucratic agency such as a hospital administration, an insurance company or any governmental entity.
I’m assuming you’re watching the made for t.v. series of Lonesome Dove?
Have you ever watched the actual movie, and it’s sequel Commanche Moon? Each are several hours long, and they’re perhaps the BEST “under-rated” westerns of all time. Tommie Lee Jones does amazing work…
Here’s a clip from Lonesome Dove, the movie. Enjoy, you’ll be hooked, lol.
http://youtu.be/WEwADbas7L0
Reading about your personal experience made me think of a key books I have read that confirmed for me that I believe in situational ethics. The book was
Situation Ethics
by Joseph Fletcher who quoted a cab driver who said “Sometimes you’ve gotta put your principles to one side and do the right thing”. Rules (or principles) aren’t the same thing as doing what is right. (I think the example make the point of situational ethics as does your post.)
I’m all for choices all across the board, within the bounds of common sense and reason.
Therefore, when facing terminal illness, the odds should be weighed and a decision made. But, there must be little (if anything) restricting that decision.
Good post.
I favor allowing people to what they want with their bodies, pro right to die.
All those supposedly anti-big government tea party are only anti-big government when things are happening which align with their own personal moral framework that they have decided is the one only true and correct thing. For some reason they think they have some kind of right to get government to push their values, aside from that – they love to scream about big government. I call that bogus hypocracy.
Failing to understand that government probing a woman for no medical reason is big government, and government trying to control a person’s decisions re: their own body is the right thing to do if only it is consistent with the rightwing view. They like to play God. To them I’d say, keep your big governnment out of other people’s personal ethical moral decisions, including right to die. Talk about a big government overreach.
You didn’t chose to let her die. You chose to let her live as well as she could. There’s a difference. People chose to try to kill me because they think that my death is somehow more comforting than life, but my body sustains itself and should be left alone.
The right to die is about as basic to individual rights as you can get. I think that physician-assisted suicide should be legal in more places. I don’t understand why it’s not, actually.
I guess I’ve never been in a situation where wanting to die has come up so I don’t really know where my opinion rests.
I knowe of a few cases where the doctor has administered drugs to patients to pass them on. Better to die then to live like a vegetable.
Personally I think the government should euthanize everybody on their 50th birthday. Once people reach that age they’re really not doing anyone any good by sticking around, including themselves. Let’s face it, at best life is all aches and pains at that point.
@lonelywanderer2 - I agree, and that is why nothing but the right should be legal. The decision should be made by patients through a living will and family, not government, insurance companies or even physicians themselves.
@vexations - Thank you, and I am going to download that book this weekend! Funny how our perceptions change from situation to situation, and years and experience make everything different.
@Unstoppable_Inner_Strength - Thank you!
@DivaJyoti - It is funny how some talk out of both sides of their mouth, isn’t it? Thanks so much!
@Colorsofthenight - Thank you so much, that is always good to hear.
having been in the medical field all my adult life i strive to save life. i also strive to give dignity to those in the arms of death. i struggle with trying to save someone who took steps to end their life for they thought/felt there was no reason for them to live even though they are a healthy person. too many times grandma/grandpa was brought in by “family” telling us to do everything we can to save them and keep them alive. yet grandma/grandpa is quite old and does nothing but remain in a fetal position and is not aware of anything about them. is this a life we would wish on them? why can we treat our pets with more respect and dignity to let them die, yet we want everything done for someone that is no longer a person but a thing. a mere shell of a human being. a shadow of the person they were. we do it not for that person, but for the selfishness in our selves. we cant let go. yet we must let go and let them have the right to die. death is but a part of the circle of life. we should have the right to die.we forget about the quality of life for we want the quantity of life. life is above all important to humans, we forget that death too is important. we can not have one, without the other. nothing is permanent.
@WaitingToShrug - I agree, it’s amazing that it is not only not acceptable, but illegal?? Sometimes the rules don’t add up.
@godfatherofgreenbay - Let me know when you decide!
Silence! I kill you!!!
OK, I thought it was funny…
Sail on.. sail on!!!
@SKANLYN - That’s a great idea!! Maybe they should start at (how old are you?) haha – in all seriousness, if you are suggesting it’s a slippery slope, you are right. It is. But even then, do we want to let someone else prevent us from determining our fate? Or do we want to have personal control over something so basic as when we die?
@catstemplar2 - I agree, if that’s what the patient chooses.
@dreadpirate - Arrggg Matey!! Where you be sailin?
@buddy71 - I would rec this 1000 times if I could, thank you so much for chipping in.
@AgainstTheWind1 - I didn’t even see this at first, good think I don’t have much planned this weekend!
Yeah, sorry to go off-topic, but I’m back and forth on what I think about right-to-die situations, still looking at it from all sides, so I didn’t have much to add to that discussion.
The movies truly are epic, though. Hope you enjoy them.
@AgainstTheWind1 - I don’t mind going off topic, and it is a back and forth issue. I get it. Now put that diaper back on.
people have issues with it 1.) Because as soon as we allow it WILL turn into an economic issue. and 2.) because presented as for example here, it totally throws over board the value of life itself, and that officially.
I think many many many people claim they want to die just to not be a burden, but they don’t actually mean it. I feel there already IS a lot of pressure when it comes to living wills. I actually want to design mine so that I am kept alive no matter what. But I can’t bring myself to do it.
However I am afraid of death, afraid of dying, but MOSTLY afraid of being put to death when I still could get something out of life.
More importantly I LOVE LIFE. I think it is a miracle that I can see and feel and hear and think. Even when I am just snoozing in my bed in the morning, half asleep and no capable of any intellectual achievemnts or physically demanding tasks in that instant I enjoy the moment. As a baby I “enjoyed” doing nothing but getting fed and pampered, and I think when I am old and sick (or only sick) I can do that again. But it makes me come off as a bad person. I know that most people reading this feeling uneasy at the thought of having to do this for someone. When I see someone talk about it they always say they don’t want to live like this, dependant on others. When someone asks you “do yo have a living will already?” and the question isn’t asked so seldomly, it is absoloutely clear what they want to hear. If you don’t have one they have to keep you alive…well sucks for economy! so they urge you to give them permission to kill you.
So I feel bad for still wanting it. But it’s better than no life at all. And guess what? I actually think it lies in my human nature. Survival instinct. I don’t think I am so special there. The good thing for you others is I’d do it for you too; I’d keep you alive.
Now to the second point. Life itself is a terminal illness. I don’t know if it’s going to be the organ heart or a new grown tumor or whatever, but my body is going to kill me. We all die, and in the span between has it’s ups and downs. As I grow older the extreme-points of the up and down curve are in within a smaller spectrum. But can you say what extremes it has to have to count as “terminal”? I think the point is reached when the extremes are zero, meaning when you are dead. If a cancer patient could still watch their favourite show one more time, or squeeze the hand of a loved one is it worthless? is it then not also worthless if an old person can do nothing but watch TV eat and sleep and read? Or say if someone with a live-long illness such as bipolar and it actually clear they won’t find a cure during their life time?
You say you want the freedom to decide to go to not be a burden. Still if someone agrees that some random person’s life has no worth and help them they are a murderer and must be treated as such.
Also, tbh I don’t know if you can imagine the situation. I don’t know if you’ve ever been depressed, so that you actually *feel* what’s it’s like to feel that your life makes no sense, or more precisely that others think so. The painful part isn’t that that a suicidal person made after accepting their decision to die, but the struggle of wanting some life for yourself and knowing no one wants you anyway.
It may have been a wrong conclusion in my case because I am young and capable of many things, but I think if someone still clings to life deep down and you present such a moral or culture that is
even more…sorry…cruel.
All in all this is pretty much sending off the message “at a certain point I don’t give a fuck if you are around anymore” TO EVERYONE. This is fucking scary!! And it makes ppl more suicidal or conflicted about it and well, live in fear and mistrust.
That’s why I think there must be VERY very strict restrictions. I actually think there should be a clear difference between active dying aid, and euthanasia (which in spite of the eu has a pretty “nazi-german” sound to it, I cannot help it) because it describes what I find acceptable more well and leaves less room for interpretation. Euthanasia simply means something like “feeling well while you die” as far as I know…you can also feel well when you let your wrists bleed out in the bathtub.
I don’t even know what to say about your daughter, and it is so sad. But she died of something I can agree with: In the case of physical pain there are morphines, that ultimately lead
to death more quickly. Similiar to as you mentioned drinking etc. But the point is, the argument here is to ease the pain, make it humanly bearable, increasing life quality, which like many things has its consequences, but not “ending it sooner” because you think her life is worthless.
I was pretty upset reading this, I’ve been pacing around for at least an hour…it totally triggered my surivaval instincts. I hope you don’t take offense in the emotional response but I find this scary.
@under_the_carpet - Damn this phone Xanga, it’s the worst because I can’t ignore Xanga but I cannot fully comment the way I would like. Thank you so much for your input. I never meant to stress you, and found what you said valuable. This is not the comment I would like to respond with, but the best I can do on my phone.
@under_the_carpet - I am going to rec your comment, not because I agree with it but because I know some will, and maybe they can respond more appropriately than me. I do love/hate this phone app.
@BoulderChristina - haha…no problem with the phone. thanks! and thanks for responding anyway
@under_the_carpet - @under_the_carpet - You raise some interesting points. I think that the mood of the world and nearly all of the governments of the world are moving to honoring one’s right to live. You seem pretty depressed with the topic and I feel for you. Fear of death is pretty common and I do remember a time in my life when I was afraid to go to sleep for fear I would not awaken. I hope your fear passes. It might be a good idea to talk to a friend and share your ideas that you expressed here with them. Comment back here if you would like and I’ll hang around to listen.
@vexations - You’re a senile old man who’s using up our valuable resources. Time to call it a day grandpa. A big chunk of my paycheck is going to fund your social security and government subsidized health insurance. I could be spending that money on a lot of cool shit. Do the right thing – blow out the pilot in your oven and insert your old, ugly head.
@SKANLYN - I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to be my first block.
@BoulderChristina - Good call. A troll is never missed. xo
@vexations - My friend, don’t feed the troll. xo
I absolutely believe that every person has the right to die in the manner that seems best for them. Enduring some of the extraordinary measures used to keep people alive these days seems worse than just letting go. I have made very clear to my family that I would not want to be kept alive like that. A life that is being lived in extreme pain, confined to a hospital bed, or that you cannot even be aware of is not, to me, a life worth living. I would rather enjoy a short amount of time and go peacefully and quickly than drag it out over a long time and be miserable for most of it. And if I was in a position where I was unable to do that, I would hope that physician assisted suicide would be available.
This post ties into an interesting article I read a few days back about how physicians are far less likely than the average person to utilize aggressive or experimental treatments for their own illnesses, but rather choose to do what you did for your daughter: use minimal treatments, and enjoy what time they have left.
I am sorry for the loss of your daughter and think she is blessed to have a Mama who put her child first and allowed her to live a quality life instead of suffering with the treatments that would have made the time she had left miserable.
I am pro right to die. I think the political stuff about it is controlled by the medical community to keep sucking in the money from the terminally ill until there is no more to take.
You are a good Mama and blessings and hugs your way.
Excellent post. I totally agree with you..I’ve blogged and posted about this in the past…it’s political and the typical one sanctimonious person trying to tell others what to do.
@Lost_In_Reverie - My thoughts exactly, thank you! Where did the dignity in death go? Why do we fight it so much that we forget what we are living for?
Thanks so much for the add, I look forward to getting to know you better.
@under_the_carpet - I see he was able to respond and offer to chat, which is exactly what I would have done. I want you to know that I love life, too. I love it. I love almost everything about it, including the pain that comes with it. I admit, I am not prone to depression and though I have felt it, I have been fortunate enough for it to be situational rather than conditional. I feel deeply for people who suffer with this, my own (middle) daughter has had struggles and I have felt so powerless to help. Not being prone to depression myself is a blessing, but renders me little help to people who do suffer. This has been tough for me to manage in my own family.
I commend you for choosing to stay alive at any cost! The choice is what I am preaching here, not death. I watched many people die, some with dignity, some without. I hope to die as bravely as some of the people I knew, and I would like to die with grace. I love my favorite TV shows, books, movies. I love to watch the squirrels on my porch. I love to hear laughter and music. I love the smell of bread baking and clorox in the bathroom. I think that I could happily live and enjoy my life in almost every stage of my life. But I pray (to whatever God is listening) that when my suffering outweighs my love for life, removes my dignity, and causes suffering to my family (not financial, mind you, but the anguish of watching me suffer) that there is a way that I can control my fate. I have taken care of loved ones and hospice clients. I am no stranger to natural death. (I have not seen accidents or anything of that nature.) I fear the end, myself, in a way. But being so close to people who have faced death, I only fear the loss of life, the loss of my personality, the loss of my essence. I do not fear the transition from life to death. I hope I can embrace it, boldly, gently, gracefully as I have seen others. I want to leave this world with the love I entered it with.I am available almost anytime, if you want to chat. I usually have this page up even when I am not on it, so if I don’t respond to your meebo thing it isn’t because I am ignoring you. Just send me a message (email style) and I will get back to you as soon as I return. Thank you again for the thoughtful, honest response to my post. You do not have to say I am right for me to truly appreciate your input.
@Grannys_Place - Thank you for your kind words. I admit I second guess myself and decisions often, especially when I am hit with waves of grief, and it always reassures me when others tell me I did the right thing.
I agree about the finances, mostly. I also think that other than simply trying to use the remaining money from a life spent working, the medical community is searching for answers. Searching for ways to cure, to prolong, to improve conditions. I think that often doctors are so concerned with finding a way to make someone who is ready to die not only live, but live well again, that they forget about the quality of life for the patient they are working on. I can understand and even appreciate that. People who have chosen experimental treatments and surgeries and medicines and procedures may have done it for their own betterment, but it has added to the betterment of everyone. Patients who suffer a sever cancer treatment regime and had it be unsuccessful gave their life and comfort to improve somebody else’s life. There is no way I can express my gratitude to those people enough, even if they didn’t do it for selfless reasons. I admit I am torn about this. I am utilitarian by nature, greater good, etc. But I wasn’t when it came to my child, and I would never ask anybody else to offer themselves or their loved ones to improve and promote medicine and medical breakthroughs. I guess I am a hypocrite; I love the theory but didn’t follow it when it came to the girl I Iove. I surrendered her organs for research after she passed, but that was the only sacrifice I was willing to make to better medicine. I am going to swing by your site when I am done here to see how TD is doing. You take excellent care of him, and he is lucky to have you.
@Ninasusan - Thanks for checking it out! I admit, I expected more negative feedback than I received, but I guess that makes sense with 2/3 of people feeling the way we do. We are a baby step away from having this right. Just an inch! I hope that people grow bold enough and brave enough to move that extra little bit and make this available, selfishly, by the time I need it!
Feel free to link your posts here, if you like. But since this was done yesterday I don’t expect anymore traffic!
@BoulderChristina - I mean, I understand why people fight it – they’re scared. Most people are scared of death to some degree because there is no way to know for sure what will happen. But I think that in that moment it’s necessary to take a step back and look not at the death you’re afraid of, but at the life you or your loved one is living. We all want more time, but do we want that time to be painful, or confined to a hospital, or comatose? I don’t think so.
I was on the fence about this issue until my mom got cancer in 1999 and started to die. In the end, I fully supported a person’s right to die. Why is it that when a horse breaks his leg the humane thing to do is to put him down but when a human is dying a slow and painful death the humane thing to do is to watch her suffer?
I think it is partially a personal freedom issue. Nobody should have the right to tell you what you can and can not do with your body and this, of course, includes the right to die. I think part of the reason why it is such a controversial issue is the potential murder aspect in which somebody dies and the family says it was an assisted suicide but in reality it was a cold blooded murder.
I also watched a documentary on PBS a few years ago about it in which a guy with ALS had to go to Europe to have an assisted suicide. Personally, I think it was a travesty that he could not die in the country he was born in.
I think I want to twist your words around a bit. I don’t agree with physicians making decisions. I believe the family should if the person is unable and the person if they are able. Assisted suicide is legal in the US in Oregon, Washington, and Montana.
@BoulderChristina - thank you. I don’t know what to say anymore…it’s not that I don’t appreciate the offer but I doubt anyone can help me.
I hear what you are saying. I think I am most afraid of being completely abandoned by all human beings. If I knew I could still lay there and selfishly enjoy what is around me it would be no problem But I can’t enjoy anything when everyone wants me gone. I doubt that will outweigh the loss of anything for me. I see in your comments, and I made a post about euthanasia too where i saw it, once that people think it is time to think of your loved raher than yourself and off yourself. I’d like to think they suffer when I’m dead rather then when they know I have still have some of the greatest miracle ever, life itself. I sort of expect that from them, and it’s what I realize is just not going to happen :-/.
what boggles my mind is that the courts will recognize a DNR as well as the doctors, but will not see the patient suffering and allow a physician assisted suicide. I actually don’t look at it as suicide, not when someone is in extrucating pain and slowly dying anyway. I am grateful we have the option of euthanasia for our pets, working as a vet tech for so many years it killed me to see clients pushing their pets to live. It made me pause to think about us in society and god forbid I was to become terminally ill and be in so much pain that not even meds could temporarily relieve it. I’ve watched loved one pray for death as they suffered until the end. For me I feel that we should be allowed to control out own life and choices, and if we wish to let go we should be allowed to with as much dignity as possible.