January 18, 2013
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Killing Babies and Civil War
I have tried so very hard to stay out of the gun control argument for many reasons – primarily because I am so divided myself. I am evenly split on which way I lean. Another reason I have stayed out of the discussion is because I have friends whom I adore on both sides, seeing them fight on my page will make me insane. But I feel like I need to express my opinions, as I want to make sure everyone knows where I am coming from so they don’t think I am taking their side or their opposition’s side. Here is how my thinking works, you can see it goes back and forth.
1. The gun related homicides in America are higher than any other developed country, with 3.2 gun related intentional homicides per 100,000 people. Canada has .5.
2. America’s overall homicide rate is 5.22 percent whereas the global average is 6.9 percent. That may be a little misleading (though factual) because the homicide rates are so high in some areas that it swings the numbers.
3. In the US, there are 88.8 civilian guns per 100 people. That’s nearly a gun for every person. If we were going to support a ban, how would we collect all the firearms?
4. If we start collecting firearms now, and that is the right decision, maybe in 30 years the streets will be safer and guns harder to access. Maybe my grandkids will be safer.
5. Prohibition has proven to fail at every turn.
6. Those who fail to learn from history are bound to repeat it. I read a blog today that illustrated methodical exterminations on a large scale once the country was disarmed. Now, I know there is controversy around that due to circumstances, timeline, etc. But, as I mentioned there, the only story I know to be completely true about the US government disarming people is the Battle of Wounded Knee. The government went in to disarm, something went wrong, nearly 300 men, women and children were massacred. Remember, this isn’t the only bloody battle during the Indian wars and technically, the Indians were not considered citizens. That doesn’t prevent the hair on my neck from standing up when I think of it.
7. Children die every single day from firearm homicide. Not just in schools, but from drive by shootings, parents who are depressed or trying to hurt the other spouse, from other kids throwing tantrums who don’t understand the permanence of their decision. Everyday we lose our babies to people losing control of their emotions and having access to guns.
8. We are living in a time called The Great Peace, and from a historical perspective, violence has never been lower in developed nations.
9. Gun control laws will further divide the country, red and blue, and stirrings of discontent in citizens may grow to extremes. It would also cause much more dissent in Congress preventing progress in other areas, such as mending the rift that has taken over our nation.
10. What changes if we do nothing about gun control? Nothing. Is that acceptable?
So, as you can see, my schizophrenic mind is making me crazy with this. I cannot avoid all the debates, they are everywhere I look and everywhere I listen. At least now you can see where my divide is, my confusion, and I bet that I am not the only one that is in between. I am pretty sure there are other people who are undecided as well.
Remember, on my page, you can say whatever you like about me and my ideas. You can argue ideas and politics until you are blue in the face. But if you start attacking one another I am going to kick you out, regardless of how much I love you.
Do you have any ideas how we can work together, both sides, and come up with any answers? I want to be part of the solution, but I have no idea what it is. What are your suggestions?
Comments (83)
They need to look more into psychotic drugs prescribed by psychiatrists and the mass shootings. There was a time in this country (and everywhere) where if you owned no gun you did not eat any meat. They kept their gun by the door and loaded (in case a bear or wolf or mountain lion showed up, they’d be ready) and their kids understood what it was about. No kids took any guns to the schools and killed their peers. No kids hurt themselves with the family gun. No cabinets, no locks. Guns were readily available and there were not the restrictions there are now. If the problem is the gun violence and murders, the reason is not the readily availability of guns. That is not what has changed as gun violence increased. And China has seen many a massacre of small school children in recent years, done with knives.
I have never owned a firearm and never will. My much older brother taught me how to shoot a single shot 22 rifle as a kid.I agree that the 2 second amendment gives qualified citizens the right to bear arms.It also seems that the courts allow some level of control as to ownership of firearms. The question seems to be what firearms should citizens be legally allowed to own.Personally, I think each citizen should be allowed to possess a single trigger puling revolver, and a rifle and shot gun if they are hunters. The rife and shot guns should be single shot trigger pulling weapons—no automatic weapons of any kind.These weapons will allow citizens to defend themselves and enjoy hunting.I know and you as well that there will be a fierce public debate about this. It won’t matter to me since I will not purchase any firearms at all, but have no problem win qualified citizens owning firearms to defend themselves or hunting.
We all know there is no easy answer to this. There are just too many variables at play to say ‘this action’ will fix it or, for that matter, ‘this’ action will make it better. A lot of things have to change to make it better. It is terrible that anyone is killed regardless of how. You are so right. We definitely don’t need a great red/blue divide. Congress is already at a stalemate.
These are my thoughts:the 2nd Amendment cannot be revoked. it was instated for one reason: to give people the ability to defend themselves against their own government. this grew out of the reason for the American Revolution.I agree with Ocean Starr, that there is an unwellness that lies within American society that causes these massacres to happen. people kill people with knives, cars, clubs, etc, every day as well. many of the issues lie in poor/inattentive parenting. also, there are mental health issues – not just mental diseases or disorders – that are to be heavily considered. these issues would never be covered under the statute that keeps mentally ill people from owning a firearm. mainly, I am concerned that those on either side will never come together with one another. the active, adamant ones on each side seem to almost hate one another. it’s disheartening. almost scary.if they actually tried to take guns away from people, it would not be local law enforcement who would do this. local police would often refuse to do so. it would be the BATF who would be specially trained to go into homes and take firearms. can you imagine the scenes that would unfold on the news? it would be a gunfight in a quiet neighborhood when the BATF visits a home. it’s rather scary to think about what would happen once America sees these things on television.maybe a nationwide campaign on the safety and responsibility that comes with owning firearms. a full-tilt one that is not aimed at taking firearms from the populace. in my mind, this whole situation can be a powder keg waiting to explode if the wrong move is made by either side. : /there’s so much to say. I’m not a gun enthusiast or a radical. I’m concerned about our children and others as well. I want to be safe from our own government.sigh.
My mind is pretty firmly made up — and I’m not interested in arguing the issue. I do find your post extremely interesting, with the stastical backup for many of my thoughts. I to am concerned about our children, but also the safety of others who just want to stay out of the way of this type of issue. Somehow there has to be a better way than the current extreme division of the country!
I am sure for any issue, there will always be division and war among people. But I agree with the steps taken by the government. Canada too has lot of guns, but the fact is, we have free Healthcare and anybody who feel nuts, can easily get help. However, with the recent death of a mother who took the lives of her two children which I wrote in a post, cannot really justify that. There is always some bad thing that will happen, which nobody saw coming.
I would have never believed that I could see such a thoughtful analysis on guns on this site. You are amazing! I don’t entirely agree with you, as, to me, guns are to kill, so banning them only makes sense. But at the same time, I don’t mind a meaningful, nuanced discussion, and you make effective points. I’ve just never seen anybody do that on this site. What I see is similar to what happened to me today, where I posted a one-sentence opinion, and the gun advocates came crawling out of the woodwork to attack me and demand that I debate them. But I’ve already seen all of their arguments, and I know they are close minded on the issue, so what would the point of that be? To me, when 20 children are murdered, shot multiple times, by a legally obtained gun, those advocating for guns anyway scare me. But as with any issues, it would be nice to see a real discussion, instead of just the crazy I see flung around here. That’s my long way of saying this blog is awesome and so are you!!! <3Having said that, since whenever I post my opinions on this 50 people come flying at me, I’m not going to respond to any comments directed at me. Good luck and great post!
We have several laws on the books right now, which are haphazardly enforced. In fairness, that seems to apply to the law in general. Gun confiscation would end with one Ruby Ridge after another. People in the back country almost universally don’t want their means of food provision taken away. Others are worried for their safety, both in sparsely- and densely-populated areas. The biggest issue, to me, is social disconnect. Whether a person is mentally stable, or not, he/she needs to be taught BY THOSE WITH WHOM HE/SHE IS LIVING, a serious respect for firearms. When a Glock pistol was in my house, tow years ago, the rule was that it had to be serviceable, clean and empty at all times unless a threat to my family’s safety was perceived. We only had to load it once, in the five years we had it. It was only fired on the practice range, and then promptly cleaned and emptied of bullets.I read that, just today, a 7-year-old boy had a handgun, in his backpack, at school. That is not an NRA problem; it’s a parent problem. Thankfully, the School Resource Officer handled the situation immediately.
Guns have always been used by some to murder. We know the stories of the wild west of old. Small towns would hire sheriffs and marshals were appointed in every area of the country In other words there was gun violence in “the good old days” and lots of it. To your point 5….prohibition of guns is not being discussed. What Americans are questioning is the easy availability of military style assault weapons which function is solely to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible. Another discussion Americans are having is a need for universal registry of guns. It’s the same thing we do with automobiles. If you purchase a car at an auto show of any kind, if you purchase a car from an individual a title needs to be signed over to you and you need to present it at a motor vehicle office in order to get plates and insurance. It’s common sense. Peoples’ cars were not taken away by the government when that legislation went into effect. Peoples’ cars were not taken away after seat belt laws went into effect. Seat belt laws have however saved lives. MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Drivers formed because they were fed up and pained by their children being killed in accidents caused by drunk drivers. They formed, pressed for action and lives have been saved but peoples’ cars were not taken away by the government. We see traffic signs informing us we need to slow down while driving through school zones. In my area the signs inform me fines for speeding in school zones will be doubled. I’m pretty sure lives have been saved but again, the government hasn’t taken peoples’ cars away. Just today there was breaking news. A convicted murderer who has no right to carry a firearm was found to was arrested by the FBI. He had in his possession an arsenal of firearms. I forget the number of firearms but it was a lot. He also had over 40,000 rounds of ammunition in his possession. The FBI found socialist white supremacist literature on his premises. He is a known white supremacist. How he was able to obtain his arsenal is likely under investigation but this we know. Right now anyone can purchase firearms at gun shows, online or from an unlicensed gun seller much like the guy or gal you’d buy a car from without a background check. That is something we can change and it’s not prohibition. As to point 2. When we compare ourselves to “advanced” nations alone we experience an average of 11,000 murders by gun per year. By comparison Germany, a country of 80 million people living in an area the size of Oregon experience an average of 40 murders by gun per year. I believe Great Britain’s rate is lower yet. As you pointed out is nearly one gun per person in the U.S., far far greater in numbers than any other advanced nation. If guns made us a safer nation we would be the safest nation in the world. Also, once you bring a gun into your home there is a 20-40% greater chance, depending on which statistic you go by, that a family member, friend or otherwise innocent person will be killed. The Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights grants the right to bear arms for the purpose of a “well regulated militia”. In the Supreme Court decision called The Heller Case Justice Scalia, the most conservative judge on the court wrote in his opinion the federal government does have the right and latitude to ban assault weapons. We ban ownership of grenades, bombs, rocket launchers, nuclear weapons etc. It’s not prohibition. It’s common sense. The latest wing nut government conspiracy theory is the Newtown shooting was staged by the government with the purpose of getting public opinion behind taking peoples’ guns away. The website claims the parents of the children were actors because they didn’t cry enough. In my opinion reasonable, law abiding gun owners should be infuriated by this site which has already gained hundreds of signatures. It makes decent gun owners look nuts but guess what? Most gun owners and most NRA members want universal background checks and universal gun registry. They had to go through them. Why should others not? Again. It’s not prohibition. It’s common sense.
I don’t know if there will be a solution that will please both sides. Given all of the comparisons to Hitler that I’ve seen over the past few days, it doesn’t look like there’s going to be a solution anytime soon.
What a pleasure to read a post from someone who “thinks” and uses data to try to reach a decision. I think you know my position. We need more synergistic thinking to dissolve this conflict and find acceptable resolutions. What bothers me is that so much of the dialog contains out and out lying about things that can easily be checked. I am not talking about information in your post. I know your facts sync with what I have read and checked out two or three times. Why are my fellow citizens lying to each other? What is there to be gained? It’s past my bed time so that’s all you are getting from me tonight. Waiting to be interviewed about milking cows on a family farm.
I don’t think it really is necessary for people to be owning military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines to begin with. I wish I understood why people are so passionate about owning guns, but I don’t, and I can’t grasp it. Say you want a gun and you’re not entirely insane, you will still be able to buy and own guns as I am aware– just not military-style assault weapons.Even if we can only save just one innocent life, shouldn’t we at least try? And no new policies have been implemented yet, but of course trying to make schools safer and mental health care more available it another step in the right direction following this. I’ve stayed quiet for all of the horrible-hard-to-watch debates all over the place, but it’s getting really hard to lately. No one is being completely stripped of their rights, whereas we have people still trying to fight for basic rights (ex: gay marriage) and this is considered “normal.” Whether or not new gun control policies are implemented, I surely hope that we take every action we can to ensure safety of others. This is a good post, I feel really strangely about all of this gun talk myself.
i’m just glad to see that someone else doesn’t know the definitive answer.
I don’t want to be apart of the solution.I like messing with people on both sides of the debate. They are such a passionate bunch.
@mtngirlsouth - A lie. but nice try.There was an attack.NONE of the kids died.Do keep to fact.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/china-school-attack-video_n_2329511.htmlThe word is “wounded”.Not good certainly…but FAR better than shot multiple times…and dead.
@galadrial - You mean in China? Maybe YOU should try to keep to fact before you go calling me a liar: *March 2010: Eight children stabbed, 5 injured at Chinese primary school. http://digitaljournal.com/article/289460#ixzz2H0LAcDwB* April 2010: Attacker Stabs 28 Kindergarden Chinese Children and three adults http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30china.html ”Thursday’s attack occurred a day after a 33-year-old man in the southern province of Guangdong stabbed 15 fourth and fifth graders at a primary school in Leizhou.”*April 2010: 44 school kids stabbed in China in two days http://www.sify.com/news/44-school-kids-stabbed-in-china-in-two-days-news-international-ke3pWWficaj.html “Beijing: Twenty-eight children were stabbed on Thursday by a 47-year-old man at a kindergarten in China’s Jiangsu province, a day after 16 primary school students were attacked by a mentally-unstable man in Guangdong province.”*May 2010: China suffers eighth child stabbing attack in a month http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7710196/China-suffers-eighth-child-stabbing-attack-in-a-month.html “On Monday morning, a man armed with a knife and a hatchet killed two people and wounded another seven, including two 18-month-old boys, in the north-western province of Shaanxi. On Tuesday, a villager in a remote part of Guangxi province hacked an old woman to death with a machete before attacking another grandmother and her granddaughter. Since the end of March, when a mentally unstable former teacher killed eight children at a primary school, China has suffered a series of copycat knife attacks.”*August 2010: 3 kindergarten pupils, 1 teacher, stabbed to death in a school in China http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6451919-3-kindergarten-pupils-1-teacher-stabbed-to-death-in-a-school-in-china*December 2010: News Digest: Children stabbed in Hunan school attack http://thechina.biz/china-economy/children-stabbed-in-hunan-school-attack/ “A Chinese primary school teacher stabbed four children to death and wounded 12 pupils and four colleagues in the fourth attack of its kind in recent weeks, the Beijing News said yesterday.”*July 2011: Seven killed in China stabbing rampage http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/seven-killed-in-china-stabbing-rampage-2329429.html*August 2011: Eight children hurt in China stabbing spree http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/china/110829/china-shanghai-nursery-stabbing(It just goes on and on, but I am tired now.)
@mtngirlsouth - @galadrial - Ladies – no arguing with each other on my page.
@TheTheologiansCafe - You are a devilish rogue, aren’t you?
@promisesunshine - It seems the few of us who are wishy washy just don’t speak up very often. With good reason of course!
@BoulderChristina - Didn’t mean to argue. Just not too happy about being called a liar when I did not lie. I did not intend to offend you or fight.
@brrraaaiiins - The discussion is everywhere, isn’t it? It is hard to separate the facts from the emotions and make a valid decision. I respect your decision, and wish I could make one of my own!
@mtngirlsouth - I know – and I know how hard it is to reign your passion in when you feel so strongly about something. I just don’t want this to turn into a brawl
@vexations - You are such a ladies man! I blushed and batted my eyes just reading your comment! I can’t wait to talk cows
@BoulderChristina - i wouldn’t call us wishy washy. honestly. just more aware of the limitations of absolutes.
Again, I’m not interested in arguing the point, but the following logic occurs to me as most valid. 1. It is said that guns do not kill, people do. 2. Guns are the tools most popularly used to kill. Some are used to kill food, and others to kill people. 3. if it is not one’s intent to kill people, there should be no reason to own a gun of the type used to kill people (i.e., there ‘s no need for people to own automatic or semi-automatic weapons unless one intends to kill people).
Has there been gun debates on Xanga?
@musterion99 - I’ve heard mutterings here and there!
@slmret - Janet, I agree. There’s one thing you missed regarding guns in general though – they are also for a sense of security. I look at it like this – when I got divorced and moved to a new state, I bought a German Shepherd pup. I love him for a thousand reasons, but I originally bought a big, mean dog to feel more secure. Now I know that he would probably never hurt anybody, but nobody else knows that. (Don’t tell!) Jogging at night or early in the morning is only safe because he is a deterrent, even though his trigger may never get pulled. I think a sense of safety is what most people are concerned about, and are trying to find the best path to get there.
In my perspective, we don’t have a gun problem. We have a people problem.I would argue that mental health issues coupled along with the stigma of mental health (yes, it is still actually quite bad) and dangerous psychotropic drugs that are prescribed willy nilly have a lot to do with the mass murders we hear about in the news.Though on a broader scale for crime, I was pointed to this article the other week that I think you may find as astonishing as I did: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline. It makes a lot of sense and I look forward to further research.
@mtngirlsouth - You know, I agree with much of what you said. I think you and Gary are sharing much of the same message, that it’s the family that needs to change, not the weapon. I grew up with guns as a country kid and was taught very early lessons that I think every kid who is around them should be taught. That isn’t always the case.
@HUMOR_ME_NOW - You make a lot of sense, Frank. Thank you. I think the next debate may be who is qualified
@C_L_O_G - It seems like everybody is missing that point, doesn’t it? The further we dig the divide between right and left, the less can be accomplished. I am scared to death about things like social security, health care, the economy.
@BoulderChristina - Yes, and that just adds to the confusion that I feel (along with you)! I think for personal safety, I would prefer a dog to a gun, though — most dogs are not tools used to kill, although large dogs would make life pretty difficult for an attacker. Guns can too easily be wrested away and turned to a weapon against the person trying to protect him/herself.
What if the root of the problem and its solution are not a certain (nonsensically defined) class of firearms at all? What if lead poisoning (and no, that’s not a play on words) plays a significant role instead? There’s an interesting PDF here. What if dangerous psych drugs also play a very significant role?I’m really glad that you’re big on research.
I’m split on the issue myself. I own guns so yeah.
I promised, promised myself that I would not get into a discussion about gun control. Yesterday, I read a post from @oceanstarr that resonated so many of my feelings about gun control and I applaud her. I also respect all the posts that calmly and intelligently stated their concerns, pro or con.This is an issue that people have been debating for years, and trust me as a member of the “older” generation, there are NO easy answers. There are people who should not own guns. There are people who own guns and use them responsibly. We, as Americans have many rights, among them are the right to free speech, the right to bear arms and the right to vote! These rights are used or abused by all Americans, no amount of government control will fix that. However, I feel that to really resolve and stop all this infighting among my fellow Americans and Xangans; we, the people, should have the right to vote for or against any changes to our rights. So, to the people who are screaming and shouting about gun control, take that energy and those convictions and Write your Congressman and Senator. Let them know that you want a voice and a right to vote on proposed gun law changes. Now, * turtle slowly pulls head back into shell * I am going back to my normal stand of not discussing religion or politics in public or in Xangaland. I love ya all!
psychology screening for anyone who has a gun now and whoever plans to buy a gun. that way, the wait is longer that they’ll just get tired of waiting and forget buying it. but then for those who are really patient with the gun may suggest that there’s something wrong with them. metal detectors for every entry of public spaces?
Gun bans are not the answer. The answer is mental healthcare, training, and strict background checks. Outlawing so-called “assault weapons” and such just infringes upon 2nd Amendment rights, and guarantees that law-abiding citizens will not be able to defend themselves from other threats.
@slmret - The need is for defense. There’s no need for a lot of stuff in life, yet people would cry foul if it was taken away. And yet, guns are a 2nd Amendment RIGHT but people seem to be okay with relinquishing it
@BoulderChristina - I’m not too worried about social security since it isn’t an entitlement program. The economy seems to be improving slowly and slow growth is usually more stable and lasting. The people I know who want to work can find jobs. Health care is totally up in the air. Who knows how that will all pan out in the end. I can’t believe it is such a polarizing issue. Seems obvious to me that health care costs are out of control and something needs to be done. The medical system is quickly pricing itself out of existence. I hope the great red/blue divide doesn’t become a have’s vs. the have not’s divide. It is beginning to look like to me that is becoming the case though.
well done bc… i have found that i have moved from one side of the fence on this issue to the top of the fence where i have fallen – and somehow managed to land straddling the fence and – and hurt myself in the process. ;-| i’ve never held a gun in my life – they scare the absolute crap out of me… the mere thought of being able to just point a device, intended through its design, to kill – is mind boggling. if i had my druthers yes, they’d all be recalled, stored in mandatory secured locations – where owners have the right to fire at will. however – i do like, respect, appreciate the single shot/trigger notion posited earlier. so where the fence comes into play (well not really it’s making me limp a tad) – i’ve started to look into gun safety classes – so that i can learn how to fire a weapon. i’ve started looking into the purchase of a safe. but i also know the family history of mine and my wife’s – and there’s a fair amount of depression issues (as there are in virtually every family – but no one will openly admit to that). and with teen/tweenagers in the house – i really don’t know… i see that we are socially trending toward the necessity to own a weapon, i simply don’t agree with that trend, i don’t particularly want to be a part of it – but i’m starting to feel there isn’t any other viable choice. that we as a society are creating and backing people into corners, where the only choice is to arm… and it makes me almost physically ill…
I’ve been trying to compose a response to the gun debate in the U.S. but I’ve decided that since I don’t live there I’m not entitled to comment on the rights or wrongs of owning a gun.But I am glad I live somewhere where guns are not commonly held by the public and where the police are not, as a rule, armed. In fact seeing armed police patrolling at airports made me feel more anxious than NOT seeing them armed. It’s uncomfortable seeing a person holding an item that could end your life in a split second. We have HAD some tragedies involving guns (drive-by shootings killing bystanders, a massacre at tennis player Andy Murray’s primary school years ago for instance) not to mention the killing of an innocent man on the Underground by policemen who mistakenly thought he was a terrorist and the shooting of an unarmed man in London which sparked the biggest riots in the country for decades but they are few and far between and I feel safer knowing that the likelihood of being shot is virtually nil.(Now, knowing my luck I’ll step out of the house tomorrow and meet a bullet on the doorstep!)
@plantinthewindow - You know John, those scenarios you described are exactly what keeps running through my mind. Troops methodically going from place to place to disarm, and just like Wounded Knee, somebody gets nervous and pulls a trigger – all hell breaks loose. Americans fearing their own government, other Americans, etc. I genuinely, honestly fear Civil War. Also, if they change one amendment it opens the door for other changes, and who knows where we will be in 20 years? I am a fan of reading about our founding fathers, and this issue keeps bringing this quote to mind:”God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which iswrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the factsthey misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. …And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are notwarned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit ofresistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right asto the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lostin a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed fromtime to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.It is its natural manure.”You are I are always on the same page
@slmret - And I forgot to thank you last night, I forgot to thank you for having the courage to speak up with your opinions and thoughts. I know it is hard to put your opinions out there, people will try to argue and shoot you down. It seems few people are interested in listening to anybody and thoughtfully considering your ideas, they are looking for a crevice in which to launch themselves and their own agendas. I appreciate you trusting me enough to know I will listen and consider your thoughts without being attacked for them.
@angys_coco - Those things will always happen, yes. I didn’t read that post? I will have to swing by and check it out. Angy, I am a self centered American and I know little about Canada’s gun policies.. I know your gun related homicide rate is incredibly low. What does Canada do that is so different than what we do?
@EmilyandAtticus - You are such a sweetheart
I am sure there are many thoughtful gun related posts here, but it’s drama that catches attention, so we probably don’t see them! I agree with your statement that guns are for killing. This reminds me that sometimes the most obvious answers are right in front of your face – there’s a brilliance in simplicity. That being said, people are scared. Not just due to recent events, but scared overall. I was raised as a survivalist, my parents genuinely wanted to prepare me and my siblings for any tragedy that could happen. They taught me to hunt, to shoot, to live outdoors, to grow food, to use botany, etc.. Well, that is a very long way of saying that they were scared of unknown events that could harm us and take away the conveniences of modern life, and wanted to make sure we were prepared to take care of ourselves. That is an extreme example of why guns are useful – they offer a sense of security and safety from the known and unknown. I posted a response to Janet earlier about why I bought a German Shepherd. One of the reasons I chose that breed is for a sense of safety. That doesn’t mean I taught him to attack (unless he licked someone to death), but I feel a sense of safety going out on trails alone with a 100 pound “weapon”. People who wish to ban guns also need a sense of security, and getting rid of guns is the avenue they are pursuing. I don’t fault anybody the direction they are taking to feel safe, safety is a basic human need and we all have it. I just don’t know what my answer or direction will be.I promise, nobody will attack you on my site more than once. Not over this, not over anything. My page is always a safe place to express yourself.
@RighteousBruin - I agree, it always starts at home. The disconnect and division of parties is what frightens me. But what scares me is this: home isn’t what it used to be. This type of thing is what makes me long for a church, or religious community to be part of. I want to be part of the “village” that cares for young people when a single family can’t do it alone. I am in no groups that offer me this opportunity, so I will have to be content with my own family.The idea that a 7 year old came to school with a gun in his backpack makes my head spin. Why? Who put him up to it? What the hell is going on in a case like that? So many things confuse me, Gary. Maybe I should just continue to keep my head down and manage what I can understand rather than trying to look up and see the big picture
You are right, this is not the fault of the NRA. Maybe one of its members (the parent maybe?) but we can’t point fingers and make accusations towards a group that is speaking the voice of its own members.
@TheSutraDude - I love how clearly you make your points. I agree, we don’t carry grenades to feel safer. Your post makes me realize I need to understand the proposed changes in gun control laws before I can accurately support or oppose it. I need to understand the definitions of assault weapons. I need to understand how many are out there, how they would collect them, etc.You are right about being more likely to be shot in the US than any other developed nation. That is beyond a doubt. You are also more likely to be murdered here by any means than in Germany. Our homicide rate is 4.8 per 100,000 and Germany is .9 per 100,000. The obvious answer is the lack of guns. But I also need to look into their gun control policies, how they came into effect, how long guns have been banned. We all know that putting a rule in today is not going to remove what is already on the street. Will it take 30 years to remove those types of weapons? Will the black market just step in and fill the gaps?Perhaps my confusion is that I simply haven’t spent enough time researching. I will make sure I swing by your page, you always have good data
@npr32486 - Hello and thanks for swinging by my page! You are right, many of the tragedies we have seen are mental health related. That is a can of worms I don’t know how to address. I know you are new here, and I want to welcome and thank you for stopping by and sharing, but on my page nobody really addresses each other with differing opinions. I know you weren’t attacking slmret, but as we are just meeting you, it is hard to gauge intentions. The main rule here is that you can express your ideas and opinions anyway you like as long as the contradictory opinions are addressed to me and not each other.
@f5ye_angel5 - Great suggestions! You are right about the wait being a catch .22 – I hadn’t thought of it like that
@Rob_of_the_Sky - The way things are heating up between sides, I worry about a violent outbreak everyday. But then, maybe I just worry too much.
@BoulderChristina - I see, so balking on your own rules. Don’t worry, I won’t be back. Don’t need my 1st Amendment rights infringed upon as well.
@vexations - I think with such an emotional topic, that people follow their emotions. They see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear. I doubt much of the information out there is deliberately misleading, but following your feelings rather than your brain makes you vulnerable to those types of things. I do know how you feel, and I don’t disagree. Ha, sitting on the fence isn’t all it’s cracked up to be!I can’t wait to talk cows… Call the cows home cutie!
@npr32486 - Thank you and happy blogging.
@brrraaaiiins - It’s hard isn’t it? Hard to stay out of it, hard to make sense of it. I share your sentiments, if it would only save one child.. The idea that our most precious resource, our kids, are being killed while we figure things out is maddening. This is why I thought about number 10 – if we take no action nothing changes. How can that be ok?On the other hand, well… forget it. You know what my other hand says too
@promisesunshine - I like your way of saying it better!
@firetyger - Great – now you have me digging for answers in an entirely new direction! Thanks for bringing this to my attention – so interesting! I can’t wait to dig into it more. Were you trying to distract me.. squirrel!
@HappierHeathen - You know, I just read about Thomas Midgely who was responsible for leaded fuel. He “had more impact on the atmosphere than any other single organism in Earth history” and “the one human responsible for more deaths than any other in history” due to his inventionsNow you are leading me down another avenue. You know me so well, I love you for that
@godfatherofgreenbay - You and I should totally do a podcast on our indecisive nature about things
We would be a HIT!!
@crankycaregiver - We are on the very same page – both trying to avoid the unavoidable! You made a truly excellent point about needing the right to vote about it if we are going to change it. You made other excellent points, too – especially about the natural abuse of our rights and privileges – but I am really excited about the idea to bring it to a vote rather than just letting the powers that be manage it.The beauty of being part of the older generation is having the wisdom to look at issues like these and address them with dignity.You are the second person who mentioned oceanstarr, I need to go look at her post now! Thanks!
@BoulderChristina - Thank you, too, Christina, for providing your thoughts in such a way that made commenting feel relatively safe. This is such a polarizing issue that people on both sides are ready to attack the opposing views – that’s not why I’m on Xanga. Perhaps some of my thoughts relate to the fact that I’ve always been fortunate to live in areas, and in such a way, where defending myself against direct violence has not been a major issue.
@xplorrn - The fence is not a comfortable place to sit, is it? I know exactly what you mean, exactly. The truth is, your safe isn’t a bad idea, but if it makes you insecure and nervous, it doesn’t serve its purpose of feeling safer having a gun in the house. Honestly, this is a very difficult topic, and I am so relieved to know that I am not the only one without a firm stand anywhere. I have a small gun in my home, too. It is locked up tight and I can’t imagine how I would get to it if an intruder came in, which kind of defeats the purpose. My younger daughter struggles with depression and I worry when she is here that she may try to take extreme measure to end the low of depression, permanently. I am not sure why I even own it, with feelings like this. Yet I do.You and me, we can ride this fence as long as we need to.
@holeinyoursoul - Where do you live? I can’t imagine seeing police officers without guns.. but that sense of safety must be fantastic. Whether you live in the US or not does not exclude you from having an opinion. I think if we knew more about other areas and how they handle things, it would make our decisions easier.
@BoulderChristina - What a nice response and that is a really interesting analysis. I am not sure all people are afraid, though. I think many are angry. The gun advocates I see on here want guns so they can be ready to overthrow the government. I guess I am angry from the other side that 20 six year olds were shot multiple times and still the idea of gun control causes gun advocates to attack. I posted a one-sentence opinion on another blog and was harassed all day for it by those people. My reasons for my opinions are not at all simplistic, but the reality is that even one sentence on a post subjected me to harassment, demands that I debate their nonsense and then crows of victory when I said I wouldn’t do it. Their conduct is clearly designed to intimidate those who disagree, and I don’t want people who behave that way to be facing me with a gun. This is the most I will say about this on here, but I appreciate your post and your response, and I am glad to know there are some rational people who can argue the other side.
@EmilyandAtticus - I hope that wasn’t offensive – I didn’t mean your idea was simplistic, just the statement that guns are made to kill is a simple, true, effective statement. Sometimes being able to cut through the noise and get to the heart of the matter makes everything so much clearer.People are heated up, on both sides. I don’t think I am in that category, even though I shed tears for the kids as well. I get caught up in the noise and can’t seem to cut through to the heart of the matter. This was what I meant to say
@BoulderChristina - Of course it wasn’t offensive, totally the opposite. I was thinking of my one sentence on the other blog. If what I have seen on Xanga is an indicator, I don’t see it as people on both sides being heated up. I see gun advocates bullying people out of expressing their views, and in my opinion it is because they know their positions are untenable, so they try to silence their opponents. I see them intentionally creating that noise to stifle debate. And to me, whenever anybody feels that threatened by the mere expression of opposing views, I can’t say that I can respect them or their views. With that, I will step off my soapbox. <3
@BoulderChristina - A few more thoughts. For decades the tobacco lobby insisted there was no connection between smoking and illnesses like lung cancer and and heart disease. We now know the tobacco industry did know there was a connection but they fought against legislation tooth and nail. They used straw man arguments that covered up their true reason for blocking legislation, profit. The NRA is and has been doing the same thing and for the same reason, profit. The gun manufacturing industry pours tons of money into the NRA. Putting Surgeon General warnings on cigarette packages has not stopped everyone from smoking. Making it illegal to sell cigarettes to people under the age of 21 has not stopped all kids from getting their hands on cigarettes but smoking is down. I was a smoker in NYC when smoking in offices, restaurants and bars was banned. A lot of smokers complained that their right to smoke was being infringed upon but I understood the reason for the legislation. There were more people who no longer had to breath in second hand smoke in their workplaces or when dining out. People could suddenly go to bars without coming home in clothes smelling of cigarette smoke. I think I mentioned seat belts in my first comment. When wearing a seat belt became mandatory in New York one of my colleagues was a Conservative. He was a nice guy. We had lots in common. He happened to be a car enthusiast and boy did he belly ache about the new law. “Nobody’s going to make me wear a seat belt.” “Let them try to give me a ticket.” “There’s nothing that shows wearing seat belts save lives. In fact all they do is make it harder to get out of a car in a hurry.” He was about 20 years older than I. I’m sure by now, if he’s still alive, he does use a seat belt but back then he saw the new law as an inconvenient infringement upon his rights. We know of course that seat belts, child seats, air bags and crush technology that absorbs impact all work to save lives and minimize injuries. Do people still die in car accidents? Yes but more would without these safety devices and technology. Thanks for the compliment.
@TheSutraDude - Those are both excellent examples. Don’t forget, I am a midwest girl and there’s a voice in my head that says, heck no I am not going to let the gov’ment tell me what I can and can’t do in my car and business establishment – however; I simply can’t imagine going to a smoky restaurant or bar now. I would choke to death.And the seatbelt thing – they have saved my ass more than once. I am sold.Now I have more to consider. Thanks
@BoulderChristina - Haha. You’re welcome.
@BoulderChristina - I suspect that you have the same mental foible that I do: I value the correctness of the answer far more greatly than the ease with which it can be derived, and I know that if the problem is misstated the answer will be incorrect by virtue of being inapplicable to the true problem.It might be that for once I’ve been concise and conveyed far more than is indicated by the word count!
@HappierHeathen - Apparently I can’t add a gif of clapping to embed in a comment. Here is the next best thing: ((Clap, clap, clap))
@mtngirlsouth - Not true… kids/people have been shooting other people since the gun was first invented.
Guns simply aren’t what are killing people, they are only the weapon of choice. The problem in America is that something is psychologically wrong with us. I think we really need to focus on what the real root of the problem is, and it’s not the legality of guns.
@BoulderChristina - I live in the UK. The police force isn’t armed here, except at strategic places of government and, since 9/11, at airports. It actually made my skin crawl to see them – it looks so jarringly out of place. (Also, they were wearing what I assume were bullet-proof jackets. No one else was. Nice touch, that.)I think if the police became armed there would be an increase in gun crime as the criminal fraternity became determined to match them, a localised arms escalation! I’m not naive enough to think that people here don’t have guns at all, but it isn’t commonplace and I’m greatfull for that.
I don’t know…;)…there was one I was going to sign up for but then I found out you did it over cellphones. I guess I need to get some sort of mic and go from there.
@BoulderChristina - Thank you! I am honored.
@BoulderChristina - I don’t consider it a distraction, just another piece that should be on the table when it comes to talking about what should be done to reduce violent crimes I think there is a lot to it. When mass shootings happen, it’s easy to want to give into the gut reaction of wanting to get rid of guns since guns were used in those cases. But we have to look to the big picture if we want to be effective in the changes we make.
Incidents (often sad) bring forth a flurry of ideas and exchanges… which I think is a good thing… but I do think it is far to easy for some on Xanga to be quite biting in their expressions and retorts as if they have the (excuse the pun) “magic bullet.” Thanks for expressing your opinion and for the ability to keep an “open mind.” ^..^
@SheTigerCat - Ha, open minds are more prone to getting lost in the noise!
@BoulderChristina - But Colorado is a great place to have peace and quiet! ^..^
@SheTigerCat - Ha! Yeah, there aren’t any opinionated people around here
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